Curse

Lady Erighan · Mar 21, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Hello everyone.

Right now, my guild is running a "semi-rainbow spike" build that uses two earth Eles, two blood Necros, a Mesmer, two prot/boon Monks and a flag runner. We've been pretty successful with the build so far and we're trying to see how far we can go with it. Our rank is usually between 500-1000.

I've noticed (like most people) that about 85% of the GvG teams are running "balanced" builds that are built for splitting up and/or high durability in 8v8 combat. Almost every game we play it's against this type of build, and though we do really well in 8v8 combat, we start to fall apart when teams split. In a 4v4 situation, spiking with two offensive units is near impossible against a team with a competent Monk. So, we basically need to out-smart them or blow through one of their split teams and hope we can kill their GL before they kill ours. Unfortunately, we have about a 50% success rate when making these types of decisions.

So, my questions are:

1. Are they better tactical ways to handle split team situations? I understand the different maps play a huge tactical role.

2. Is a spike/defense build destined to fail in the long run against balanced builds?

I appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks
Lady Erighan

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

The thing that balances spike, is that you will get beaten by teams that punish you for your inflexibility. If every map was like the Fire map with only really a single path to take, I think everyone would be running spike.

As for handling split builds, with a build that can't split; it ain't easy. Snares will help you bigtime. Wait for the second squad to push into your base, chase them inside, snare the theif. Wait for after the 2 minute res mark, kill the theif and then push out to the stand. Then you have just under 2 minutes to hold the stand for morale, while they can't split to get into your base.

However, most split builds are very mobile. They almost all have a charge warrior, and possibly a Windborne Ele. This is where the snares come in. Generally matches against decent split builds will last untill VoD, whereby you are weighing up number of NPCs (as split builds will invariably gank a few) vs Morale (if you have managed to corner one of the splits and DP them, and held the stand).

Patrograd · Mar 21, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

However, most split builds are very mobile.

I am noticing that alot of good spike builds are also very mobile to counter this threat and will spike the guild thief as an early priority

Parkerbsb · Mar 21, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Splitting is almost nessessary in GvG now, not saying you have to split; but you have to be able to split should the need arise.

I would suggest making some modifications to your build to make it easier to split.

A few ideas:
1) have 2 phantom pain/shatter delusion mesmers, that way if you do split you can inflict DW which will help increase your spiking ability
2) If your runner is a E/MO have the emo and a monk split back to base to hold off the "gank" team until the rest of yout team rolls over their flag team then go around the back way and crush them

Mage Henchnem · Mar 21, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I have found that splitting is more effective then trying to remain together, under most circumstances.

We use 2 mini teams when we split, each having basic deffensive and offensive ability, one iwth more offense and 1 with more defense.

Ideally when we split we send the offensive team to their base to try to take down their defenses and the defensive team to run flags and tie up their team if they try to get into our base.

One thing that I have seen is many guilds that wait until they go for the kill to take down an enemies defenses, witch IMO is silly because you could have been working on it the whoel time, taking one out at a time, wearing the other team down. Also if you fail to take down their base reinforcements when VoD comes you will usually get owned by the archers. If you fought an entire 30 min fight and both teams still have their base defenses fairly intact, I think its pretty safe to say that it was a fairly balanced fight, in witch case the archers and others will most deffinatly be a whole lot to handle in addition to the entire other team.

Taking out their defenses on the other hand, even if you plan to play defensive other then that until VoD is a great idea, because if you can hold them off for the 30 min fight, and manage to kill their defenses, then when VoD comes and you have all your reinforcements along with your team, you will roll them 9 times out of 10.

Ensign · Mar 21, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

You need a *lot* of movement control (and skill using it) to hunt down people splitting on you and punish them for it. If you split up your team at all it needs to be to surround a split with a snare on both sides then, spiking it down.

While what they run isn't a true spike (they use a *lot* of disabling effects), Rifts run a strong spikey build against the spilt and play it well. You might want to watch some of their matches and see how they handle it.

Peace,
-CxE

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 26, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

One error I see some spike teams make is to have additional damage skills on their spikers that aren't part of the spike. You should have one or two skills on each offensive character to complete the spike, but everything else should be defense and utility. This leaves you with plenty of rooms for snares, speed buffs, and other things which will punish split builds.

I like the above idea of having 2 Mesmers. When running a spike build a while back my guild had a PP + SD Mesmer with Mantra of Recovery and Imagined Burden, so it was possible to keep the snares coming pretty frequently. Having one such Mesmer on each team allows you to spike more effectively.

Alternately, throw Order of Pain on a blood necro and add a Ranger spiker to the mix. Crippling Shot is still a very painful snare. This route has the issue of your spike requiring LoS though.

If you don't want to snare them, it's possible to beat split teams 4v4 going the offensive shutdown route. Rifts does a coordinated gale lock of the opposition's monk, then just spikes them down without resistance. In theory by the time Exhaustion becomes an issue the opposing split build has enough DP to spike them down without the locks. It's not an easy strategy to execute, but it can certainly be effective.